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Robin would be some lame,
and he would ruin this epic trilogy.
Go Bale!
Yes, I will be beating this fucking horse until it comes back to life.
You have no idea how glad I am to hear Robin won't play a part in the third film... As much as I respect Nolan, I have no clue how he could make Robin fit into this... and make him cool.
By the way... Remaking The Machinist as a Documentary? Isn't that George Lucas' next movie?
I kid...
The only way Robin would work in this franchise is if he is just as messed up and badass as Batman otherwise he can take his emo self elsewhere. This Batman has no limits and most def doesn't need a sidekick.
Batman says, "Backup? What the hell is backup?"
thankyoufor NO F****** BOY WONDER
Robin could be introduced in a dark manner. Perhaps as a child left orphaned by one of Batman's botched rescue attempts.
But yeah, I guess there's really no reason to bring him back.
/sarcasm
I can see years after the 3rd Nolan Batman film that they could come back and start a new Batman epic and maybe then it would make sense or maybe it won't but the point is that it doesn't make any sense at all to have Robin in this epic story arc.
But if the did come back after the 3rd Batman I think it's plausible that as Bruce Wayne is getting older and there are more and more criminals that are sophisticated the he would need help.
anyway robin doesn't need to be in these films now anyway they are good with just batman.
Check out the version of Robin in Paul Pope's terrific "Batman: Year 100", where he DOESN'T wear a costume and fight with Batman, but instead communicates with him through an ear peice, while sitting in a van looking at screens and blue prints etc of the building Batman is infiltrating. Kind of a Mission: Impossible team.
There are some things not even Chris Nolan can fix.
Over and out.
i'm still not even sold on all the riddler rumors, but i know the nolan's will pimp it out.
I think if he was introduced into this franchise then it would be more in the realm as a right hand man to Batman the way Alfred and Lucius Fox are, not as his partner in crime fighting.
The only way that it would make any sense to me is if Batman takes in a kid with a similar situation as himself and takes him under his wing at some point trains and teaches as Ra's al Ghu did for him but for the right reasons.
As I said before this Robin wouldn't be a sidekick but more a student and an intern that would help Batman on the detective end while also training and learning the trade that is Batman to maybe one day take over Batman for Bruce Wayne or maybe become his own costumed vigilante crime fighting hero.
WTF?>??
what about batgirl? we'd all love to see batgirl done right. i think Batman the Animated series did her perfectly.
however, i don' t know if she'd translate well into this version of batman.
if batman were done like sincity she'd fit in great.
+
The problem with Robin is how horribly Robin has been portrayed so far in film. The Burt Ward Robin was clearly a joke, but the terrible late 20's Robin that Chris O'Donnel portrayed, killed Robin as a film character.
I think that done well, Robin brings an important part to the Batman character, Robin serves as a way to humanize Batman. Robin is a mirror for Wayne to look into and vice versa, Robin can see where a path obsessed with justice takes him, and Wayne see's what he missed out on in his youth. There's a reason that Robin remains a sidekick, he's needed.
Robin in the Bruce Timm animated series never felt campy, and it opens doors down the road to bring in Jason Todd, and have Nightwing, and eventually Tim Drake. I can't imagine being interested in Batman comics without the supporting cast. A guy alone in a bat suit still not able to process his parents death 20 years after the fact is lame, and creepy. He requires the supporting cast to be able to expand his own character because he is such an isolationist. I understand the desire to make the "darkest" Batman film possible, but it does need to have human interaction that isn't tragic at points, it does need levity. Robin brings that. Just don't put him in the green shorts, or the little boots.
However I think that if anyone could pull it off it would be Nolan.
REAL6:
I really like Equilibrium also. Bale was great in it.
It is a flawed gem to be honest. But still a gem. :)
2. Sharing the name with Robin himself, I wouldn't mind seeing him in a future Batmas installment. Granted the role played by Chris O' Donnell were horrific, the old 60's was great, and like stated above, I'm sure Nolan could weave a great, dark story with Nightwing involved. And it wouldn't kill the franchise either.
Now, if after this Batman trilogy is done, he went ahead and did an original Robin film, I'd put money on the fact that everyone here would see it.
But fuck it man, Robin's just not gonna work at this juncture. Maybe if they make a 4,5, and 6.
And now it sounds like we're talking about fucking Star Wars...
watching the beginning of Batman it would be premature even in
a third movie to add the Dick Grayson character.
I think Nolan could pull it off if he was interested, but the character
would definitely have to change because no one wants to see a
repeat of the Batman & Robin debacle.
Robin translates fine in the comic and in Batman the Animated
Series, but I'm not sure we need him in a film. I'd rather skip the youth and go straight to Nightwing.
Nolan said plenty times he doesn't want his version to stray into the cartoon like caricatures found in other material. Which is evident from these two films so far. Robin is an unnecessary device in a story revolving around a great character like Batman.
Honestly, I'd like to see Two-Face be the core villain in the third flick and not much focus on anyone else. I think the Riddler is a cheap knock off and is very rarely written well and only written well as an aside. Him as the main villain in the third flick could knock it totally off kilter. Batman has a huge rogues gallery that works really well in the books...but, translating some of them to film (despite how well Scarecrow was done) would be really hard.
If they decide he needs and ally: The Oracle. Wheelchair bound Barbara Gordon running intel for Batman. She has her mobility taken from her like Batman had his parents taken from him. She's the power behind the cape, when Batman can't run everything into the computer and be in the field at the same time.
Nightwing, Batgirl, Black Canary, Huntress... all worthy additions to the comics and animated series, but all would be in the field and take away what Batman's got: the power to get things done as one man against all.
Thought I have to say... put Hitman Tommy Monaghan in a Batman movie and now you got a flick.
He's a budget version of Batman. Minus the cape and cowl. He also cries a lot because no one cares about him.
Much like Vincent Gallo.
Equilibrium was awesome.
Introduce robin in his own movie. Do it similar to Batman begins. Hell, call it robin begins. but now bruce wayne is training....Jason todd.
Make it the Jason todd story.
Then in the next batman move, kill him at the beginning.
There, I would practically kill to see that batman movie. who wouldn't?
I can allready hear Joel Schumocker,,,, "O my Gawd there's no colors,,,,, girlfriend its way too realistic. ,,,,, what no Robyn ? and those outfits what happened to the nips? Waaaaaarrrdddddrrrroooobbbbeeee!!!
Robin was introduced to satisfy the Comic Code people back in the day - as I remember - because Batman was too dark, too adult, and too scary, too much like the horror comics that were 'corrupting' the nations youth.
the brightly coloured costumed child was a fix to lighten the tone of the comics
Only when the solitary hero story arc is played out, then a frank miller-esque Robin would be interesting, here Robin is really about saving Bruce's humanity.
Child soldiers are real. 16 year old recruits saw service in the gulf by 17.
Robin should be costumed along the lines of an urban Robin Hood, think dark, black green and greys. rather than the Robin a small bird.
because, seriously, there is no possible way to introduce Robin into gthis franchise without losing its credibility as a collection of the most "realistic" superhero films. there is just no way to get around it. the dialogue, the characterisation. Robin belongs in the Joel Schumacher films.
and @ jordan2099: the very fact that robin is a child would hijack the whole franchise. Bale's batman would never entertain the idea of bringing a child into his personal war on crime. and what are you gonna do? have Morgan freeman make him a little red version of the batsuit? because that would royally suck....it would be chris o'donnel all over again.
in short, robin belongs in the shorts and boots......and not in the new batman franchise.
;-D
Batman is aging, or knows that someday he will be gone, as time will not stop. He knows The Work needs to continue - there will always be a new Villain.
Batman needs someone he can respect, that will be a student, who is young, capable, has no family ties, can be molded, and will one day BE Batman.
Use Robin as a supporting character to move the story along then ditch him.
It sounds like you just suggested that Batman Beyond become a live-action movie franchise. Incidentally, that sounds awesome. Bring it on!
Robin is a very important, and arguably (obviously) necessary character for Bruce/Batman. after Nolan/Bale's Bruce loses Harvey, i think it would be very appropriate to at least move in the direction of hinting at Robin at the end of the trilogy... perhaps the 3rd script should include Robin, but it is obvious that the masses are not perceptive enough to 'get it,' and thus all the work might be wasted. i mean, it's clear that people, including Bale, have already made assumptions about the Robin character... he's not Powers' 'Wing,' for crying out loud. and he's not Burt Ward.
and please tell me that someone else was pissed that Nolan wrote the Zorro movie right out of Bruce's origin and instead made him a bed-wetter who gets scared at a ballet...?
I know it was a straight-to-DVD movie, but it wasn't that terrible. It had Sean Bean in it too.
Is it just the stigma that a DVD-only movie can't be good?
This "war on crime" aspect that's been mentioned, that seems to be pulled from the god awful Frank Miller(who normally is awesome) All Star Batman and Robin series, which has been a complete and utter distortion of the characters from the start. I don't want to hear "war on crime" its Batman, not the Punisher. Its justice not vengance. The part of the character that the Nolan films are missing, and to me the most interesting part, is the detective aspect. How lame was it in Begins that you had this huge history between Ra's and Wayne from the comics and you don't have Ra's reference him as "the detective" once, you don't have Batman doing any type of detective work, instead opting to try and fall in love with some girl again. I love that there's this "Robin sucks" bandwagon, but no one is bitching about the invented character of Rachel Dawes, or the fact that Bruce is again going to be pining for her.
I don't think that Robin should make an appearance in the Nolan films because they clearly haven't been setup as such, but down the road when they do the next set, hopefully they get a director who better understands the source material, and we get an actual accurate translation of the character, and a more filled out supporting cast.
Does anyone even read Batman comics? It seems like a majority of these comments stem from people who've only seen Batman movies.
Maybe in The Dark Knight Bruce will get Rachel pregnant and they'll have a baby. That way their kid can play with Clark's super baby. I smell a team up.
i also agree about Dawes, i just didn't want to open that can of worms...
and clark's kid made me want to cry over the disgusting treatment of the Superman mythology
http://tinyurl.com/4g4bzd
I also agree that the Tim Drake Robin would be a great starting point because his character has had more developmental time as Robin, he has the whole deal with his father knowing he's Robin and not endorsing the idea, him discovering the identity of Batman and earning his way into the role would play to a general audience much better than "tragic circus accident" which unfortunately kind of dates the material.
I was talking to a co-worker about the movie, and he's excited because its soooo dark and Batman's sooo dark, and its going to be gritty. That's great, and hooray for no nipples or bat-skates, but as someone who's read Batman comics consistently for the last 20 years, I enjoy the dark themes, but I read it not because its dark, but because in the middle of this horrible city you have Bruce trying to do what he can to contain it and at the same time not loose himself in all that darkness. Its the supporting cast that keeps him afloat and stable. In Knightfall Tim was worried that Bruce was losing his grasp, in No Man's Land Batgirl provided the foil to Bruce as an example of what his life could have been like had he not had Alfred to balance him. Oracle constantly reminds him that he needs to be nice to people every once in awhile. Left alone and without these supports, Batman becomes a one note character.
For me the definitive Batman film is still Mask of the Phantasm.
Bruce could see Robin as his one chance to get rid of the Batsuit and leave it all behind. It wouldn't work if this is just going to be a trilogy tho
Philip seymore hoffman aka the penguine!!!!!!
1- he's a lame character and wouldn't fit the dark image of this set of movies
2- Bale isn't old enough to incorporate a Robin character. There is supposed to be about a 20 year age difference between Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson. It just doesn't work right.
I get the biggest kick out of seeing how many people are looking forward to this steaming horse turd of a movie!
For those who write off the Riddler, I would argue in much the same way. Take away the lime green question marks and any semblance of Jim Carey. Let's say give him a British accent, make him use incredibly big words and talk circles around anybody he encounters, a sheer plotting genius who uses trickery as his primary weapon because he believes himself to be above everyone else intellectually. Could even dress very nicely, suits and all, like an advertisement from GQ or something. Ironically his trademark feature, the riddles, are his ultimate downfall because he only uses them to reference himself in a mocking manner towards his enemies. As if they cannot deduce the actual meaning in time anyway.
However, I don't think either should appear in the third film, simply on the basis that they both were added in the third of the earlier series and I'm sure they don't want that kind of comparison. Let them do the remains of Joker's gang, or the False Facers, or Zsasz, or an actually good version of Mr. Freeze. Hush has a neat style too if they could write him in well enough. That's all from me.
Either his views have changed (maybe because he SAW how lame Robin turned out in "Batman Forever"?) or he's a bit bitter.
I also agree with Bale and Nolan that Robin should stay out of these films. This arc should just stay focused on Batman becoming Gotham's Dark Knight. Dick Grayson would be around 4 at this time anyway.
I think Robin down the line wouldn't be a bad idea, it just takes the right people to put the character together. Frank Miller has written a pretty good origin to Dick Grayson in "Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder" And since Miller has turned to directing, maybe let him have a shot with it.
As long as they don't call him "The Boy Wonder" that is just embarrassing to the Trilogy.
Or "Her Creation", you sexist pig.
seriously equilibrium was like a steven seagal frat boy film. I didnt even find it intelligent or witty. Extremist yes.
The Dark Knight and Batman Begins were Bale's best works to date.
Seriously? Have you not seen American Psycho, The Machinist, or Rescue Dawn? The Dark Knight belongs to Heath Ledger. Bale is a fine actor, and the above-mentioned films all showcase his immense talents, but he is not the reason TDK is blowing up.
Yes Even I agree, that Ledger is stealing the thunder in TDK.
Hey JohnD have you seen "Empire of the Sun". Check that out. ;-)
Come on Hollywood...dont make the same mistakes as you did with Batman Forever and Batman & Robin
The Saint say's it best in his comment above...It all depends on how you like your Batman that makes you want to see The Boy Wonder on the big screen. All these opinions are great but after seeing Dark Knight I am happily convinced that Nolan and his team can take any character from the comic mythology and adapt it to fit his mood and style. A style that I hope is making most of you guys happy to an acceptable cinematic degree, No matter how you like your Batman. 3 cheers for Nolan....PLEASE keep up the good work...I have waited many years for a movie like this. Frankly I don't care if you add Ace the Bat Hound in the next film, just give any character or plot-line the respect and consideration you have shown in the this film and I will always be on line on opening knight.
With the feel and theme that Nolan has built up with these Batman movies, Robin would not fit in well. Plus on the big screen your limited to an extent on how long you can make movie before you lose people's interest.. This means you need to start dividing the screen time between Batman and Robin while still trying to develop the main story behin the movie. Something will suffer, and usually it's the story.
Besides, it would go against one of the themes from the Dark Knight, which is working toward not needing a masked hero at all. It doesn't make sense to bring on another masked hero if you're trying to work toward not having any at all.
By the way, Nightwing is what Robin called himself when he left Batman and went off on his own.
For the sake of argument lets say a movie is 2.5 hours long (people do not want to sit through much more than this for a comic book movie). Just one of the reasons why Nolan's Batman is so popular is because he explains everything in detail and does it in a way that seems like it has some basis in reality.
So, if Nolan sticks with his typical style then that means you would have to spend a minimum of an hour for a background story (the way he did with Bruce Wayne's character), plus you would have spend a fair amount of time integrating the Dick Gracen character into the Batman world without him being Robin until at the earliest the end of the movie. To have that kind of integration and still tell a good story would be difficult. And on top of this, if you decide to kill him off in the same movie then if you're lucky you would have him as Robin for maybe one scene, which would just leave people wondering why you would introduce him at all. As a result the rest of the story would most likely be so so at best. Additionally, you would also throw off the momentum of the current films. The last thing I could see Nolan wanting to do is having to downshift to introduce an uncessary character such as Robin into the films, especially if he would just be killing him off in the end.
Bottom line; introducing Robin's character into the movies does not bring any real value for the story and you take too big a chance of causing damage to what has been overall a great experience so far.
This new genertaion of bateman should reflect eavily on it's characters..
Nolans prob reading the specs on his new mansion in the Swiss Alps, and Bales more than likey reading the 25th rewrite of T4, and thinking "WTF ??? Am I doing on this crap film".
I would say that somewhere deep at WB, some lowly production assisitant is reading this page and taking notes. ;+)
after all nolan will give us all a good show.
The purpose of Robin is because he sorta Bruce's good side. He stops Batman from doing the wrong things. The only reason Robin hasn't worked is because his old in all the versions on screen which should of meant he would be Nightwing at the time. If they took in a orphan, just a kid, they would the fatherly side of Bruce, and Bruce/ Batman would be a mentor instead of having Robin as a sidekick.
As well, if nobody really noticed, Batgirl has already been inserted into the Dark Knight. Her character anyways. In the comics, she is the daughter of Gordon and we see her during the scene with harvey two-face at the end of the movie.
judging by her age in The Dark Knight, she is REALLY YOUNG. and Batgirl is suppose to be the same age as Robin/ Dick Grayson because they eventually go out. So what that means that Robin wouldn't be able to be shown in movies by Nolan for a LONG time, because at this moment, Robin would only be about 4-6 years old, like Gordon's daugther..
However, I do like the idea of keeping Batman the sole focus in these movies. I'm just saying I don't think it's out of TDK crew's ability to make a Robin backstory that people would enjoy...
WB should stop these Batman movies after the third one so that they can go down as one of the greatest movie trilogies of all time. If they continue then inevitably the series will go down hill and the existing movies will not remain as highly regarded.
Additionally, when the Batman character started back in the late 30's he was portrayed very much differently then he is now. Batman started as a detective not this Dark Knight who instills fear into the heart of criminals. This is the only reason Robin was added a year or so later. Robin was meant to be like Watson to Sherlock Holmes...someone who he can confide in and bounce ideas off of, but ultimately not necessary. He was not there to keep Batman from going over the edge or anything like that. In any case they kept Robin in there.
Somtime in the early to mid 50's people started wondering if Batman and Robin were homesexuals. Therefore, the comics introduced Batwoman to be Batman's girlfriend. Shortly thereafter Batgirl was introduced as some relation to Batwoman (I think niece) to be her side kick and Robin's girlfriend. This first Batgirl had no relationship whatsoever to Gordon. Comic sales plummeted so both Batwoman and Batgirl were removed. Sometime in the mid sixties because of the woman's movement Batgirl was brought back as Gordon's daughter. From there Batgirl has gone in and out with different characters being Batgirl.
In any case, the point to all of this is that both Robin and Batgirl (or any other hero from the Batman comics for that matter) are not necessary to the Batman comics let alone the movies. If Nolan and WB are trying to keep a more realistic take on Batman they would be better off not putting any other costumed heroes in the movies.
If someone wants to create a separate Nightwing or Batgirl movie that have it, but leave them out of the Batman movies.
how about he was one of the ones hit with scarecrows fear toxin and now fears nothing? how about armed to the teeth! he wouldn't have Batman's high moral code, with him it would be kill or be killed and shoot the other guy first.
now have this kid find out who batman is wouldn't Brucie Wayne need to keep this kid off the street maybe bring him to live at Wayne manor to keep maybe not the kid but the information safe?
I think he could play very well
and while were talking DK3 how about johnny Depp as the Madhatter? Not a mind controlling Madhatter but a pedophile who kidnaps little girls named Alice.
maybe one of the Alice's is dick grayson's sister? now we have a movie.
and i think one villan in the next movie will have to be the riddler and he played a part in the dark knight, not as the riddler though (for two reasons) when the joker is in jail the scar on the inmate (the one with the phone in his stomach) is in the shape of a question mark, the second reason is the riddler always carried a cane in the old movies and comics, and the mob boss that two face didnt shoot in the car (he shot his driver and the car crashed) was carrying a cane in a couple of scenes. im not saying this is for sure the riddler but it is a good possibility
NO ROBIN in ANY BATMAN films ever again!
If WB cannot convince Nolan and the current actors to return then they should stop while they are ahead so these movies can go down as one of the greatest movie trilogies of all time (assuming Nolan does as good a job on the third film as he has on the first two).
And, if this series of Batman movies stops after three then there is no point in introducing Robin.
That said should Nolan, Bale, et al. choose to walk away - there is no reason why another Batman movie shouldn't follow.
What matters is that it's a good film.
I'm reading through a batch of 'elseworlds' comics. In every respect the movies are actually 'elseworld' stories. inspired by, but not the same as, the mainstream continuity in the comics.
As a fan of action movies, and comics, and these are related genre's in the sense of telling grand heroic fiction - I'm selling the idea that these characters, Superman, Batman, Spiderman, and so on are iconic.
In other words it's not a case of whether they can survive or deserve been rebooted - and or can survive different and even competing versions of the stories been told across different and even competing medias; but rather that they benefit from these incarnations.
In other words there can be a Batman and Robin story arc - but clearly that won't be Nolan's Batman - and that can be a good thing.
I would like to see it happen as it is part of the Batman story, but on the other hand (to those who read the comics) Dick Greyson hasnt been Robin since the early 90's (I think, dont hold me to that!), the 2nd one came n got annoying and got killed off, now the 3rd Tim Drake has his own story and is only involved in the Batman stories when theres one of these gimicky crossover storylines linking all the Batman books together to increase sales! Basically what I'm saying is in recent times, there has been no Robin in the Batman comics, there is no Batman and Robin, so what is the incentive to make a film with the character in especially as it has changed so much without the majority of people knowing Dick Grayson isnt Robin, who Jason Todd is as well as Nightwing.
I can see pros and cons for both arguements really, I'll just be happy with another Batman film directed by Christopher Nolan and crew!
The acting was robotic, if that's any hope for T4 ???
you could also make robins story tragic by saying he was at one time an orfan